February 8, 2011
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Chinese parenting
One of my readers PMed me last week, asking me to blog about what I thought about Amy Chua’s book and WSJ article. Although I believe this topic has been beaten to a bloody pulp, it is a pretty important topic to talk about because I will be a parent one day.
Long time readers would know that I often discuss about the way my parents raised me. It was always different than from my friends and classmates, even amongst the Chinese families. I had relatively the same rules Amy Chua had for her daughters, even going as far as discouraging me from drawing and other arts, forcing me to focus only on academics.
During one summer before second or third grade year, I had to stay in and memorize the multiplication table. I had to recite it fast without messing up, from multiples of 2 through 9. My heart wasn’t into it because kids were playing outside, but I had no choice. In the third grade, I received a “gift” from them, a complete set of encyclopedias. For three hours a day, for three years, I had to read it. After homework and such, reading it took up most of my time. Although I know a lot of things now, even in hindsight, I’m not sure if it was a good thing since I felt that I “lost” my childhood.
Throughout most of my academic career, many of the top kids of every class were Asian. Of the non-Asians, they were Jews. While I envied the freedom many of the other kids had, I was prideful of doing well. But even then, I felt that my parents were pushing me too hard, one time even criticizing me for coming home with a 107 on a midterm, and not getting the full 10 extra credit points.
Being pulled between East and West cultures, I rebelled against them, going as far as dropping out of school. I needed fun in my life, but that didn’t fit into their plans.
It took many years for me to really get over what happened between us. It actually wasn’t until a year after I graduated from college did I realize that my grudge was stupid. I may not agree with what they did, but what they did was done with good intentions.
Reading Amy Chua’s article, I really felt a strong agreement with her methods. While I wouldn’t go as far as forcing them to only play certain instruments or disallowing them to star in plays, I would be really strict with academics. I do believe that most kids can learn any material. Some just require more practice than others.
I truly believe that the modern child grows up with a sense of entitlement. They are babied by their parents. My parents beat me till I was 16. The modern child would have probably called the cops on their parents as soon as they knew how. I won’t beat my kids, but there are about 1000 ways to punish them. I would be the strict parent and won’t be nice. I won’t try to be their friends until they I feel that they are old enough to be.
I have quite a few friends who are teachers and they often tell me about how parents complain to them about giving too much homework or making the work too hard. It bothers me that these parents do not realize that they are failing their children. Children don’t know better. If we want to give them more than what we had growing up, it starts with teaching them what hardwork is all about.
Thinking back, my parents never told me that I needed to be a doctor or lawyer or accountant. They just wanted me to do well because only then, are more opportunities open to us. I’m surprised there are so many critics. Asians have the highest rate of being professionals in this country. Is it really a surprise that all it takes is being diligent and doing well in school?
While Amy Chua doesn’t outright say her way (the Eastern way) is the better way, I will say that it is. Doing well academically, does in fact open more doors. And does it really affect the development of social skills? I can’t say I’m socially inept.
What are your thoughts on the matter?
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Comments (22)
Interesting. I read an article in the German weekly paper Die Zeit today on her book because it is published in Germany. In Germany, too, there is a big discussion on a lack of discipline with kids, etc. Thinking back at my childhood, I feel a little bit more pushing by my parents would have done me good. It’s not that my parents were lax or careless, but they gave me freedom. While I am grateful for their trust (I never abused my privileges), I wish they instilled more discipline into me. Yeah, it sounds like a lame excuse for being a horrible procrastinator.
The definition of “beat” in a westerner’s eye is different from the typical Asian definition. When Americans hear that someone hits their children, they automatically think abuse. What Asian kid hasn’t been whipped with a feather duster? It’s like part of growing up, and it’s good discipline. Anyways your parents get a work out when they have to chase your ass around to do it. heh. Punishment is fine as long as they are doing it to teach the child rather than out of rage/anger. THAT’S the difference.
I will add though that the biggest thing missing in “the Asian way” is that feelings are not expressed often. Almost like it’s taboo to tell your parents you love them or that something they said hurt. But alas it is what it is, we’re stubborn people.
i don’t mind it, but parents need a reason for their methods. i just feel like chinese parents rear children the way they do because they don’t know any other methods. they’re ignorant of other parenting styles and although it’s not their fault, i feel it’s not a justified reason. you touched on the childhood point, and you’re right, you CAN’T get your childhood back no matter what. dropping out of school later on won’t bring back the time you lost. not trying to take anything away, but most chinese parents’ “good intentions” stem from a combination of stubbornness and ignorance to the outside world.
I’m dismayed by the extent to which this is made an issue of
race/culture, because it only reinforces the stereotypes that are already so prevalent. Yes, many Chinese-Americans
excel because of the discipline imposed by their parents, but the nefarious thing about stereotypes is that we always use them as a substitute for individual merit or fault.
That aside, although I can’t comment on this particular book since I haven’t read it, I will assert that ‘discipline-instilling’ parenting is often almost as lazy a form of parenting as permissive parenting can be. There’s nothing particularly difficult
about demanding A’s, forcing instrument practice and forbidding playdates. Frankly, any brain-dead idiot who is willing to sacrifice their foolishly romantic notions of affection between parent and child can do that.
And as far as excellence providing choices, a kid who considers himself a failure to himself, his family and his ‘culture’ if he doesn’t pursue a profession of a particular status does not experience ‘choice’, believe me.
But yes, instill in your child a sense of discipline and a commitment to achievement and excellence. Duh.
@BradsPits2010 - Have you at least read the WSJ article? I’m not so sure you can call her efforts lazy.
As far as choices go, I majored in History. My parents did not offer even 1 bit of criticism against it. I was a straight A student who decided in college that I wanted to learn History and one day become a history professor.
If my kids wanted to excel in whatever they wanted to, discipline and hardwork would be the key to that. You have to learn it when you’re young because laziness is a bad habit that’s developed very early on.
-ray leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I think getting disciplined by my parents during my younger years was the best thing that ever happened to me, as they made me do well in school, read a lot, and at least have good enough grades to choose whatever I wanted to pursue.
That being said, there are many aspects to disciplining kids by beating that determine how effective it is. What’s likely more important is how parents communicate when they’re not beating the kids. Some parents give no guidance, then suddenly beat kids to the verge of abuse when they disapprove of the kid’s conduct. There’s no saying whether the kid will learn. Better guidance from parents, such as simple admonitions or a strict warning or a gentle encouragement, actually makes the beatings more meaningful. That would probably get the best of both worlds.
Haven’t read the book so can’t comment on that.
I truly believe that the modern child grows up with a sense of entitlement.
Bullseye!!
I think this is what’s wrong with modern society to begin with. The majority of people in this new world believes that they are entitled to everything and they mix up rights and privileges so that the two becomes one. As a result, the sense of entitlement enables for a lazy/less driven person because they think why they must put in any efforts when they’ll end up reaping some rewards anyways.
One of my part-time jobs is at a family restaurant and in this kind of environment you are able to pick up the stereotypes between a White family and an Asian family (seriously, it’s very difficult not to stereotype when it’s right there in front of you, but of course… there are the exceptions).
The restaurant offers balloons to children who comes in to eat. For the Asian families, this balloon is a reward for their children for being so well behaved during their meal. The kids get the privilege of receiving a balloon after their dinner and only if they were good.
On the other hand, generally when a White family comes in, the first thing they ask for is a balloon for their child. To them, this balloon is rightfully theirs and it doesn’t matter how the child behaves at the table. Ill mannered or not, the kid still gets something in return.
So, for a child who hates sitting still to begin with, why bother behaving in public when he/she will get a balloon in the first place? It is this kind of discipline that allows tiny little monsters running around a crowded restaurant lol.
As for the beating thing… I remember one time my parents beat me and I threatened to call 911. I got my butt whipped even more. LOL I think I only got disciplined that way only until grade 6/7ish though. Looking back, I deserved some of that haha …
my parents did the same thing to me – but things didn’t work out by the time I was finished off with the high school…
I appreciate what they did with my academics – atleast they tried – they still try to give me signals – but well things worked out for me the other way round and I am going to finish a big deal if everything goes with the plan – making myself glad (if no one else)…
I totally agree with your ideas – academics should always be up – I have a friend who is working as a waitress - who just want to go and roam around the continent and finish off the college when she grows older – that thinking is un-acceptable for me… As one can clearly ruin his/her life by making stupid old-fashioned decisions in this modern dynamic ever changing society…
well written – keep it up!!
I used to think my parents pushed me too hard, and that doing well in school was just to make my parents look good. It wasn’t until i got to college that all the book learning was for me–to avoid looking stupid later on, in a general sense.
It’s very hard for a kid to be disciplined at anything if his/her parents don’t start it at home and early on. I’m a high school teacher and I see this whole… sense of entitlement versus working hard attitude all the time with my students. Slowly, some 2nd/3rd generation Asian Americans are losing the hard work attitude (ok, so I’m generalizing the 2nd/3rd generation Filipinos).
But when it comes to punishment, I think any form of beating or physical/verbal abuse is unreasonable. You wouldn’t want your kid to be afraid of you or have such a painful memory and have that create associations with handling failure the wrong way. The last time my parents ever beat me was before I started school, and I still think that it was unreasonable. Even if there’s an explanation to why a parent will beat/slap the kid is bad. Avoid the beating and talk about it, then give a time out or take away privileges.
I don’t think you are socially inept. You are a good writer! But then again, you may be different when you speak, but I highly doubt that. I also believe that high expectations and strict teachings are necessary for children. Everyone wants the easy way out, and as parents (or future parents), we mustn’t allow our children to behave in such a way.
I know a bunch of kids, Asian and otherwise, who were taught the value of discipline and hard work, who excelled in school, and who went on to be successful productive, and happy individuals. None of their parents were “Tiger Mothers”.
Their parents were able to instill a respect for discipline, hardwork and excellence without screaming at them, forbidding social activities, or belittling their efforts - tactics that the author of this book is so proud of. Their parents taught them lovingly and respectfully, by example, and through positive reinforcement. As a result, these kids developed a love of excellence, not a fear of failure or disgrace. They achieved not because they were forced to, but because they truly valued the rewards of achievement.
I expect that this more ‘organic’ inclination towards excellence yields better results. I didn’t read the WSJ article, but I read one elsewhere in which the author herself tells of the kind of law student she was: unquestioning, uncritical, simply regurgitating the textbook and lectures on her exams. Ok, well I suppose that’s great for making law review, graduating with honors, even achieving tenure as a law professor. But I wouldn’t want to hire someone like that as legal counsel, nominate them for a judgeship, or necessarily expect them to have any kind of sophisticated legal intelligence.
It’s not as though parenting choices boil down to either being overly-permissive and raising lazy brats with a sense of entitlement, or being harsh and relentless and producing highly-functioning “successful” automatons who make “good money” in “respectable jobs”. There are better ways to produce success, and examples abound.
is amy chua that tiger mum? it was on the news briefly last week.
though my parents disciplined us………..they did not really push us really hard academically. my parents …..they let us do anything we wanted so most of us got into trades. different aint it. all they said that as long we are happy and content and have a job.
i think sometimes i wished that they pushed me into playing an instrument like the piano and have extra tutoring. maybe they liked us for being kids and gave us freedom.
but anyway i have a group of 2 to 5 year olds and they lack so much discipline and yes they are western. very sad to see that they run their parents and the parents don’t run them
I read the article, and I loved it. Not just for the aspect of parenting, but the overall message of pushing yourself hard – “nothing is fun unless you are good at it.” That statement from the article strikes a chord with me. . .and something I am guilty of. I am far from a success, but my happiest memories in life are from pushing myself hard at whatever I was doing. I’m guilty of extreme laziness at times, and extreme productivity at others.
Working your hardest at something, gritting your teeth and saying I will not give up, and getting the results you fought for is a very rewarding feeling, and a sign of maturity.
Too many kids, parents, and even adults pursuing their dreams give up on something, because it is hard. No one recognizes that some things in life worth achieving are not easy, and are not supposed to be. The part I feel most parents, not necessarily American, but easy-going parents miss is that their child has a choice of lifestyle when it’s all said and done, to be more easy-going, or be a more high status professional, or something else. But superior academics open the doors to more options. And why slam doors on yourself in this economy?
there are alot of people who are thankful now for the discipline their parents protected them with when they were younger.
they didn’t realize how important this was back then, but now, they know how much it has been a benefit. count me in as one of those people.
there is a balance, i believe. but when it comes down to it, i will probably lean more towards her method of raising her kids but with my own distinctions.
Typical story here. Immigrant parents. worked all day and night. we lived in the ghetto. I was a latch key kid free to get away with
whatever I wanted and roam the streets after school. my parent’s
(immigrants) were more concerned about preventing me from getting
pregnant like my 14 year old peers and involved in gangs or drugs rather than academics. so in regards
to school..they never checked my work. they would just say that you are
going to school for yourself and not for us. if you don’t go to school,
you’ll work at Mcdonalds. (typical Asian parent phrase) however when it
came to everything else — sleep overs, phone calls, boys etc. they
were super strict. regardless of their sometimes overly protective and
harsh disciplining methods; i believe they raised us the best they knew
how in a foreign society (esp. one where they were not allowed to beat
their own kids)…lol.
As some one who actually read her book -in addition- to that article, I just want to point out that her book is not so much about how “Chinese parents are better than American parents” but her own personal experiences of trying to raise her children with a Chinese mindset in a American setting.
It’s a humorous and interesting book. I do recommend it to anyone. But to some, read with a grain of salt.
I would also like to note that Chua actually bends down to one of her daughters. She’s not your 100% staunch “Chinese mother.” She eventually realized that her tremendous amount of force she pushed on her daughter will only break them both apart. I suppose that is the “Americanism” in her stepping up.
Some interesting comments here. I think there is a difference between being first generation asian american, 2nd and 3rd. As parents we all do what we think is best for our children. I am first generation. My family moved to the US in the sixties. This was a strange land to my parents. We were five children and we were not allowed to go out to play. Period! As a distraction (I think), we took piano lessons, went to classical concerts at the music center. There was no choice. You do as you are told in an asian family.
How did this rub off on me as a parent? This generation of children have the most opportunities at their fingertips. My children were born in the 90′s. I knew it was important that they were computer literate. I knew that language was important too. And music, by the way, is a language. By the age of two both my children had their own computers. They were also taking piano lessons. Not as a distraction, as a language lesson. Like reading, writing and arithmetic, it requires practice. I communicated with my children. Unlike my parents who dictated to their children, I found that when my children understood my motivation to “force” them to do something, they almost always agreed to do it for the same reasons. Contrary to what most people tell, children do not like being idle. How many times do you hear them say they’re bored. My children were not bored. Music lessons, games, bowling, basketball, dance, concerts, plays as well as play dates boy scouts, girl scouts, church and community service. It was all mandatory. They had no choice. I made up the lesson plan. And I tried to make sure it fit into their interests but sometimes it didn’t. Did I force them? Of course I did.
My son graduated high school among top of his class. Because I forced him to study hard and accepted nothing less than “A,” He earned a scholarship and is now attending university in London. He says things like “I’m so glad you’re my mom.” My daughter is following in his footsteps. She is an artist (draws very well). Taught herself photoshop; Algebra II in the 10th grade. In addition I force her into swimming, archery and piano, Church and community service is still mandatory. My children have an all or nothing attitude in their character. It is wonderful to see…..no compromise. That’s why you do it.
All of you will find a piece of your parents in the way you raise your own children.
And one more thing. Amy Chua and “Tiger mom,” it’s a marketing thing. It’s a controversial conversation designed to push peoples buttons to SELL a book.
@momsterr - That’s a great story! Thank you for sharing. =)
-ray leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
@porkbanhbao - Yeah, I know she doesn’t say the “Chinese way” was better and that her youngest daughter actually rebelled so she learned from her. But the point of my post was just to take the topic of the conversation and apply it to my own upbringing and thoughts.
I do plan for read the book when I get a chance. Thank you for sharing your opinion of it. I have it on hold at the library. =)
-ray leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Very nice jigg, and I like your conclusion and open ended question at the very end. I agree with Amy Chua. I just disagree with the tone in which she relays the message and that she’s a self righteous, pompous creature.
I’m an American of European descent, but I’m currently living in South Korea. I dislike the American methods of parenting, but I’m not very fond of Amy Chua’s opinions either. I think children should have a healthy mix of being a free child AND being challenged to greater academic heights at the same time.
That being said, I will just say that Koreans have high standards for students. They also have high suicide rates every November when university entrance exam results are posted.